Comments on: Faith and our Fathers

By: kreitsauce

kreitsauce — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:29:16 +0000

I wish you well, too. I am interested in knowing more about the facts that atheism is based on though. Perhaps you could discuss this if you have time.

By: Samanthamj

Samanthamj — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:03:42 +0000

hmmmm… it seems to me that you are doing a bit of assuming yourself. I can assure you that I, and many other atheists, have plenty of facts to back up their reasons for not believing in God. On the contrary, it's the lack of facts to back up so much of the scripture that is one of the driving factors in my non-belief. Too many things don't seem to add up & so many "stories" that are quite unbelievable in the bible. It's not facts that make people believe, but fatih. I've even had many Christians tell me that. Perhaps, some of us just have more problems with faith than others…

Anyway, I don't want to offend.. or argue with you. I just stumbled in here through the wordpress tags and the post was so contrary to my own experience I wanted to respond. I can agree to disagree, and I wish you well.

By: kreitsauce

kreitsauce — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:22:04 +0000

I've never been to deconversion.com, but I have been to the deconversion stories section of PositiveAtheism.org. I found the people there to be…less than positive. It seems to me that people either meet a Christian or church that is screwed-up and reject their faith or they make an assumption that isn't based in fact or reason and reject their faith. They assume that science and faith are incompatible and reject the Bible. They assume that the people who wrote the Bible are illiterate and/or ignorant and reject the Bible. Assuming things is a dangerous thing to do.

From reading what Vitz had to say, it seems to me that he isn't necessarily playing the same old "blame the parents" routine so many psychologists have done in the past. He sees it as a factor, but not the only factor in producing an atheist.

By: Samanthamj

Samanthamj — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:05:42 +0000

Hi, and thanks for the thoughtful response. I see your point… but, facts and deep personal study certainly played a part in my losing faith – as did my upbringing, no doubt. Matter of fact, I know plenty of atheists who were devout christians and their personal studying is exactly what led them away from Christianity. You should see some of the stories on the deconversion.com website… some of them were pastors… missionaries… or they had no religious background hardly at all. Atheists, like Christians, come from all sorts of backgrounds.

Yes, it seem Christians are always looking for an easy answer to explain why people don't believe what they believe. (they were't ever REALLY Christians, they never really KNEW Christ , etc.) I think Dr. Vitz's theory here is just on one more tangent like that – "they must have had a bad father" ?? I talk about this a bit in an old post of mine here: http://savemenot.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/greates...

Also – I'd like to point out that my father was an atheist… and he had a great relationship with his parents.

By: kreitsauce

kreitsauce — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:12:44 +0000

Samantha,

First of all, I read your "long story" page on your own blog. I think I can understand why you feel the way you feel about this post as well as Christianity in general. I in no way intend to blame fathers for every atheist in the world. I also am not saying that atheists are worse people than believers. In fact, it sounds to me like your atheist father held your home together. I'd also like to say that not all Christians are the sort of Christians your mother is/was. However, I will point out that a parent did play a role in your rejection of faith. Your mom was judgmental and, by your own words, not entirely stable at all times. You didn't reject faith based strictly on facts and deep, personal study. You rejected faith initially because of a loving atheist father and a mother who used Christianity to bring tension into your home. That's precisely the sort of thing Dr. Vitz is talking about. I hope you will reconsider your position in your moments of reflection. I'm sorry that you lost your father you loved so much and who loved you, but in God I believe you will find Someone Who loves you deeply and whom you can lovely deeply in return.

Blessings,
Kreitsauce

By: Samanthamj

Samanthamj — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:11:45 +0000

Well, I can say from personal experience that my father was an atheist my whole life, and he was probably a better father than any other fathers or friends/family I know. He also had a wonderful father (and mother) who were Christians… not fanatical about it… but, were always good parents to him.

I do not know of the research Paul Vitz has done, but my initial reaction was "wow, he's REACHING!". I mean, lets face it… there are also plenty of Christians that had abusive fathers out there as well. Matter of fact, it was always my observation that the more "abusive" or "hard" someone's background was… the more likely they were to become a devout Christian and be "saved" from all that. .

Personally, I'm an atheist more because of my religious upbringing and what I do know about the bible and religion… not because anyone abused me.